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Banana_Man

Talons of the Emperor In 8th

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Hello all, excited to be here. I too am attempting a homebrew 8th ed rules set!

That being said it's not as pretty as other people's but I can adjust on the fly!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LePMksMF_cjYqCSKyGTla9O7WgAY0kUWsyx2NkVtGSI/edit?usp=sharing

 

I have seen and read through, even incorporated a few ideas I have seen from the other attempts into my work in progress (a big one was that the adrathic destructors I changed to match the profile from the imperial space marine weapon, rapid fire makes so much sense and vastly increases the firepower of some units). 

I've had a middling amount of feedback and have only gotten one game in since I started this and it was just a 1k point game so I don't think it was very representative to make note of besides saying: Sagittarum feel like they actually mean something now!

What I want to point out:

No Hetaeron Guard or Grav transport rules yet. I don't know how to incorporate the transports in as if they are a huge expensive durable transport it kind of removes the final weakness they have. The guard are a different problem, how do you bring in 4 wound monsters like them and not make them LUDICROUSLY good and unpractical expensive?

The only thing to gain deepstrike are the terminators, who also now slot into either HQ or elite depending on how you want to take them. (I would love to play a points game where taking a vanguard detatchment of nothing but termies would be worth it!) 

The Telemon is a lord of war choice. Freeing up our amazing heavy support slot (albeit it's not as crazy in 8th). I made him hella durable, and expensive. He doesn't have the same number of wounds as a knight, but his ludicrous shielding should make him hold onto the table right proper.

Check it out and I would love feedback! 

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Thanks! A lot of sweat went into it, and going to people who I knew would criticize it harder simply because it's so easy to fall into quite a few traps when writing for the Talons. One I have noticed a lot is people just tacking mortal wounds onto a ton of weapons. I did my best to avoid that where possible.

Another thing I had to do was balance against what GW had already written. Why Custodes went to 3 wound, and have a bolter that does 2 wounds I will never understand. Really made it hard for me to make things like the terminators stand out, as 4 wound termies? So few people would want to deal with that. 

I'll walk trough it once I'm home (Sunday). But it looks quite amazing.

And maybe I can get a test game in next week or so. I'll keep you posted if I have any intel

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Yeah. Talons can quite easily go over the top. They have a lot of powerful tools that people don't like in 7th / 30k and some of them should not be transferred 1:1 because then people will not play against them in 8th.

 

Guess it makes sense to tone some things down compared to 7th rules.

 

I'll give you a full run down of my thoughts next week. But most of the datasheets seem valid so far. Guess it will be minor adjustments / questions.

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Three Talons threads at the same time! I'm really gonna have to go through all of these together and try and type them up into some sort of combined version!

 

I haven't gone through much yet, but one thing to say is that 3 wounds on an infantry unit isn't as scary as you might think. It basically means that it takes a lot of small arms fire to take them down, so you have to use heavier weapons. Given that lascannons do D6, and even a volkite charger does 2 wounds per hit, and custodes squads are often quite small, it's not THAT scary.

 

A 3-man Custodes unit has 9 wounds at 2+/5++, where a 5-man terminator unit has 10, and are the same power level in the 8ed rules. The custodes are T5, but much more vulnerable to a small number of high-damage shots.

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I also think that the design decision from GW was, that models in a form of TDA always have +1 wound to their normal counterpart. And a lascannon to the face can kill them at once - while in the 30k world it can't do that. So I think a four wound Terminator is not really that crazy. The Eldar wraithguards gone up from one wound to three a piece to show how resilent they are to Damage. A Custodes terminator should be hard to bring down.

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Three Talons threads at the same time! I'm really gonna have to go through all of these together and try and type them up into some sort of combined version!

 

I haven't gone through much yet, but one thing to say is that 3 wounds on an infantry unit isn't as scary as you might think. It basically means that it takes a lot of small arms fire to take them down, so you have to use heavier weapons. Given that lascannons do D6, and even a volkite charger does 2 wounds per hit, and custodes squads are often quite small, it's not THAT scary.

 

A 3-man Custodes unit has 9 wounds at 2+/5++, where a 5-man terminator unit has 10, and are the same power level in the 8ed rules. The custodes are T5, but much more vulnerable to a small number of high-damage shots.

Sorry trying understand:

 

Why are they more vulnerable? One less wound for the trade of making str4 str5 and str8 and str9 harder to wound them?

 

Further a gun like volkite would require 2 wounds to kill a custodes instead of the 1 required to kill a termie.

 

That is a lot of gun profiles that reduce odds of getting wounded or result in death from 2 damage shots.

 

I see what you mean against like volkite since you have fewer bodies. But at least each custode is twice as hard to kill against volkite than a termie. Moving up to essentially 6 bodies instead of 3.

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So having considered it a bit, I am willing to concede to 4 wound termies, it does match up with the rest of the +1 wounds for terminators. HOWEVER. I am capping the squad at 3 man max.

This keeps the unit from being oppressively powerful I think. Cost has increased as has the power level.  

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So having considered it a bit, I am willing to concede to 4 wound termies, it does match up with the rest of the +1 wounds for terminators. HOWEVER. I am capping the squad at 3 man max.

 

This keeps the unit from being oppressively powerful I think. Cost has increased as has the power level.

Sounds good :)

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Shouldn't the Achillus dread get a 2+ armor save? The 40k Marine relic contemptor gets a 2+ save plus the venerable rule so I don't think it's too over powered plus it puts it inline with the other Custodes infantry save. Have you done anything with the Galatus Dread yet? (I'm and idiot, just saw that the galatus is in there)

For the coronus grav carrier, what about giving it a 2+ save and less wounds and/or toughness. That way it's less of a damage soak and more about a defensive save?

Edited by madmark
Misread things

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