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Dealing with Custodes


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#1 Falkenthal

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 03:14 PM

Today i had the first game against a pure Custodes army - and I lost. He tabled me in the forth turn. I didn´t know that I will confront them, but I think my list wasn´t that bad for 2000 points. This was my list:


++ The Age of Darkness (Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List) [2000pts] ++

+ HQ +

Autilon Skorr [125pts]

+ Elites +

Legion Terminator Squad [555pts]: Cataphractii Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon, 3x Chainfist, 4x Legion Terminators, Plasma Blaster
. Legion Spartan Assault Tank: Armoured Ceramite, Quad Lascannon Sponsons, Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter
. Legion Terminator Sergeant: Chainfist

+ Troops +

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad [230pts]: 9x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Veteran Tactics: Marksmen
. Additional Wargear: Legion Vexilla, Nuncio-vox, 2x Plasma gun
. Legion Veteran Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword/Combat Blade
. . Combi-weapon: Combi-weapon: Plasma gun

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad [230pts]: 9x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Veteran Tactics: Marksmen
. Additional Wargear: Legion Vexilla, Nuncio-vox, 2x Plasma gun
. Legion Veteran Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword/Combat Blade
. . Combi-weapon: Combi-weapon: Plasma gun

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad [300pts]: 9x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Veteran Tactics: Marksmen
. Additional Wargear: Legion Vexilla, Nuncio-vox, 2x Plasma gun
. . Combi-weapon: Combi-weapon: Plasma gun
. . Combi-weapon: Combi-weapon: Plasma gun
. . Combi-weapon: Combi-weapon: Plasma gun
. . Combi-weapon: Combi-weapon: Plasma gun
. . Combi-weapon: Combi-weapon: Plasma gun
. . Combi-weapon: Combi-weapon: Plasma gun
. . Combi-weapon: Combi-weapon: Plasma gun
. Legion Veteran Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword/Combat Blade
. . Combi-weapon: Combi-weapon: Plasma gun

+ Heavy Support +

Legion Sicaran Battle Tank [185pts]: Accelerator Autocannon, Armoured Ceramite, Pintle-mounted Heavy Bolter

Legion Vindicator Siege Tank Squadron [260pts]
. Legion Vindicator Tank: Combi-Bolter, Laser Destroyer Array
. Legion Vindicator Tank: Combi-Bolter, Laser Destroyer Array

Legion Whirlwind Scorpius [115pts]: Scorpius Multi-Launcher

+ Legion +

Legiones Astartes:  XX: Alpha Legion, Traitor

Rite of War: Chosen Duty

++ Total: [2000pts] ++

I took one of the warlord traits out of the Rulebook (+1 to steal iniative, re-roll on reserves) and chose scout as my mutable tactic. The Combiplasma Veteran Squad used outflank, the rest just scouted.

He had:

2x Contemptor Achillus
one bad-ass shield captian with a rerollable 3++ and all the nice stuff they get
one Caladius tank

two Custodian Guard squads
two Sagittarum Guard squads

 

I don´t know exactly how he equipped them, but there was a lot of S5AP2 Armourbane stuff. I was not that lucky and my dice did not what I wanted. I managed to destroy one of the Dreadnoughts and the Caladius. One of the Sagittarum Squads went down to 2 man (from 5), a three men squad Guard died and the other Contemptor went down to one hullpoint. The rest was "untouched".

What do you think is the best way to deal with them? The most annoying stuff was his shield captain and those Dreadnoughts, but all in all, everyone of them ist hard to kill. With Alpharius and his preferred enemy rule, I would have more chances but I think the only way to fight those monsters is to instakill them with S10 stuff...


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#2 mechadryad

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 10:52 PM

Yeah, that Tribune is tougher than a statue's dick.

 

The Veterans are a good call and I'd even recommend a plasma support squad or two.

I've had success using the standard Vindicators against them and the ordinance doubles as anti-tank.

Flyers are currently a rather safe bet against custodes, the Xiphon in particular since it can kill 4+ custodes and get it's points back or kill the tanks as it can easily avoid the flare shield with the highest AV being 13

 

Drop the Scorpius, it's useless against them. I've never been fond of it but the custodes just don't care about it.

The terminators are eating a lot of points that are effectively wasted since the custodes do combat so much better which means you're effectively wasting more than a quarter of your points.

Armoured Ceremite isn't needed against custodes as they don't have melta so you can save points there

 

In short you'll really need to start thinking in terms of point efficiency to beat a pure custodes list, that tribune isn't going down to anything short of Russ though so just avoid it if you can

High volume AP2 is the way to go and don't take any blast smaller than a large blast


We're playing Warhammer. Not chess.


#3 kizzdougs

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 12:20 AM

I haven't play tested it, but I recon Volkite Culverins could do a good job on the Custodes infantry. The high volume of shots and the strength of 6 would be a great way to force them to take a bunch of saves.



#4 Falkenthal

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 08:36 AM

Yeah the problem was, that I thought I will confront Ultramarines...

Well, the Custodes remind me of my old "Super-Smashfucker" Iron Hands Chaptermaster on Bike. He had a 2+/3++/3+ FnP, T5, "It will not die", "Eternal Warrior" and that made him almost unkillable. A friend, who played Imperial Guard, once calculated, that he would need more than 200 Lasrifle shots to Kill this guy.
 

Compared to Imperial Guard, which is able to bring up that much shots, I would need 3 full Heavy Support Squads with Volkite Culverins to kill one Valdor/Shield Captain and his Hetaeron Bodyguards. The problem ist this re-rollable 3++ invulnerable save. I really think that this is something overpowered.

I came up with the idea to use Rad-Grenades, either with a Forgelord in my Terminator Squad, or with Destroyers. If the get T4 and somebody with powerfists or chainfists survives the higher initative, they will get instakilled with every lost HP. This works of course just with a high amount of bodys, so 10 Cataphractii, the Forge Lord, Alpharius and a Primus Medicae should do it.


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#5 smurfORnot

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 11:44 AM

I tryed Alpharius+10 terminators with comby melta/pf+chaplain+forge lord with rad grenades pf/comby melta/shield...faced 3 heterons+tankibune+valdor. tankibune takes 2 wounds from meltas. I charge in, valdor kills 6 terminators before alpharious even can fart. Then alpharious does nothink to tankibune, and takes 1-2 wounds in return. Then remaining terminators+charachters hit, hoping to insta kill those heterons because of T4 from rad granades, ofcourse you need 5 to hit because of shields, and valdor simply tanks the hits and takes a wound or two. Then heterons hit back, and only alpharious is left alive...

After that I prety much gave up on facing custodes.



#6 drweir4

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 11:58 AM

The thing with the super tough custodes characters is they have no access to assault transports and usually roll around on foot. That means they are slow, so in 80% of missions just ignore them and play around them. They are so hard to kill every shot into them is in effect wasted, so just kill the rest of the army instead / put chaff in their way to slow them down



#7 smurfORnot

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 09:42 AM

You know valdor/tankibune they can be transpored in sisters of battle assault vehichle along with that nasty sister?

 

Also, depends on map setup&scenario, sometimes you can't really ignore them.



#8 drweir4

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 10:35 AM

I mean, if someone is doing that, then they probably aren't someone you want to play twice.....

 

Even then, that transport is pretty squishy 

 

The reality is, there are some pretty harsh things that can be done with all lists. If people want to make those lists, then fine. If you want to play them, fine. But there is no obligation to do so. Just talk about it before the game with your opponent and ask them to self-regulate

 

I used a few custodes at an event on the weekend, but I didn't take any special characters (as it didn't fit the fluff at ALL for Valdor to be somewhere other than Terra (and it wasn't a prospero event)) and I just had a shield captain, not a Tribune. Yes he's still got a great save, but one instant death or s10 wound and he's dead. So there are ways of doing it which are "fun" for everyone - ultimately its down to the players to make the game fun for everyone



#9 Falkenthal

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 01:11 PM

Well, if the only way to deal with such a deathstar ist to hope, that your opponent won´t use it, then something is going terribly wrong here :P

Sad to hear, that the plan with the Rad-grenades and the Forge Lord didn´t work. I think the guy who plays Custodes here where I live won´t stop using this combination. So maybe ignoring them is really the best way :(


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#10 drweir4

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 01:41 PM

But in casual games, there should have to be any *hoping* - for all my casual games, and even event games when I can I always discuss lists with my opponent, and I'm always happy to change anything they want

 

If you don't want to play the custode characters, then don't



#11 ROBOcaster

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 02:03 PM

I can tell you want I most fear for in my Custode army. I have two Prosecutor squads that infiltrator and have Voxs to guide the rest of my army on target. I build my list to work in both front-line and Centurion mode, so I have no vehicles but dreads. Personally if you kill  my prosecutors its puts a big stress onto my Custodes arriving where they should, and having the majority of my army deepstrike means Ill never have full strength to bear, some unit will mishap or not arrive. They key ive seen is nullifying and slowing them down, Grav cannons, lingering death, that sort of stuff anything really that works as a Crowd Control, tarpit units or in my case hampering my reserve rolls. I would say that the best way to counter is not with might but control. Control their flow of battle and you should be in a better position. (But really isn't that the case with any opponent, if you control their flow of battle you control the outcome of the battle.)

 

So see if you can counter deploy and bring Aug Scanner when you can IMO obviously if you can infiltrate before them and take ground and deny their Prosecutors prime deployment zones.


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