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Do Seekers need combi-plas anymore?


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#1 Deus Mortis

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Posted 30 July 2016 - 03:11 PM

Hello fellow heresy-ers

So I've always shied Seekers, because they are/were so horrifically expensive. Then to that that to add combi-plas to them made them even more so and that they never seemed worth it to me.

However, the red book recently came out and changed their pricing a bit but, crucially for me, changed scorpius rounds to be 24", S 5, AP 2, Heavy 1, Shred.

Now from what I've seen a lot of people use Seekers to hunt Primarchs and so I've been thinking, is combi-plas really necessary any more?

After all, in both cases you're hitting with BS 5 (so twin linked against the preferred enemy of your choice) and most Primarchs run with a unit of T4 guys, so the scorpius rounds are wounding on 3's with Shred rather than 2's with preferred enemy. Plus it means you save 100 points you can put into giving them a transport or apothecary to make them a bit more survivable, and still have change to beef up some other bits of your army.

So what do you guys think? Are combi-plans Seekers going to be replaced by stock Seekers?
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#2 bluecthulhu

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Posted 30 July 2016 - 03:29 PM

You make some good points and the scorpius rounds certainly reduce the worth of the combi-plasma.

There are still some advantages to plasma:

1) Can move and fire

2) Twice the number of shots at 12"


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#3 Loser Command

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Posted 30 July 2016 - 06:42 PM

Depends a little bit on the legion and in what kind of army you're using them I think. If you can deploy the Seekers in a nice piece of terrain close enough to use scorpius rounds pretty much from turn 1 (Alpha Legion, Ravenguard) then stock Seekers are definitely a very strong choice. But if they're the only unit closer to the opponent's forces you can guess what's going to happen to them.

When using a drop assault army (orbital assault, Sons of Horus) then the combi-plasmas allow the Seekers to deal hot AP 2 death on the turn they arrive before switching to scorpius.

If a Vigilator joins the unit and the opponent's army isn't one that hugs its own board edge and pounds everything into the ground with artillery (Iron Warriors) then the Scout move might also be enough to get within scorpius range early.

But stock Seekers are definitely strong right now if you can get them in a good position and are able to protect them with other units from things getting too close or charging.

Had one unit shoot down infantery by the handfull last game, and that was with me forgetting that scorpius still had Shred :D


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#4 Raglan

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Posted 30 July 2016 - 11:30 PM

Of course they do, it's a neat little squad with combi-plas. 



#5 BBF

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Posted 31 July 2016 - 04:24 AM

I don't see them dropping a well protected primarch but they definitely got a lot better.
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#6 Excessus

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Posted 31 July 2016 - 06:07 PM

The vigilator got those new shots too, right?


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#7 Nightcloak

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Posted 31 July 2016 - 08:45 PM

yes same ammo types



#8 BrotherOracle

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Posted 01 August 2016 - 11:54 PM

I don't see them dropping a well protected primarch but they definitely got a lot better.

http://heresy30k.inv...rs-2350-points/

 

30 of them wreck Logar T1 here


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#9 BrotherOracle

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Posted 29 November 2016 - 08:26 PM

I've been thinking about this a lot recently. I'd say no, Vets do combi-weapons better (and cheaper). Seekers should be thought of more like tactical support squads now. You take this unit when you want to murder some infantry, and you're not really sure what kind of infantry you'll run into.

 

They're cheaper then a plasma support squad, and just as good against most marine targets.

 

They score so not a terrible unit for sitting back on an objective and shooting.

 

Precision shots means you can ice apothecaries or vexillas.

 

They're even better if you can give them scout, infiltrate,or relentless. for 155 points you get a squad that will punish anything not in a transport. I'm reworking some models to make a unit of them.


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#10 adamb69

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 04:17 PM

Got me thinking about using them in Kill team.  Alpha Legion of course ;-)  at 250pts you can have some nice options there


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#11 Unwanted

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 11:56 PM

I've been thinking on this a bit too, considering making a unit with just the Seeker Bolters for my Scars, just to add something completely off kilter for them, and Combiplas would make them horribly expensive, and I've already got the Plasma Outriders doing that :D


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#12 CryoftheWulfen

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Posted 06 December 2016 - 11:41 PM

I think it mainly depends on how your using them, if you want to move and fire, get out of a pod or rhino and fire then get combi plas THEN the next urn go static and fire the scorpius rounds 
If your using em defensively/statically dont bother with the combi plas just snipe away



#13 likeAsir

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 05:46 PM

Nah I like just using Scorpius rounds.

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#14 littlemen

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Posted 10 December 2016 - 03:49 PM

Whoa, somehow I completely missed the new rules for Scorpius rounds until now.



#15 Ripper.McGuirl

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Posted 10 December 2016 - 04:42 PM

Yeah, they are way rad. Just another strike against Head Hunters, I'm afraid.


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#16 littlemen

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Posted 11 December 2016 - 02:03 PM

Pretty brutal with Infiltrate.



#17 Relentless

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 09:27 PM

I'm actually looking at these as a replacement for Melta support unit as my drop pod tank hunters. Having bs5 over 4 I think is much better for a one shot one trick pony. If they survive by some miracle, they can then provide fire support from enemy's back lines

#18 xenite

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 02:12 AM

I'm torn. Combi-melta murdering vehicles which don't have AC after dropping in is baller. Scorpius rounds just make their later game utility better. You don't want to suicide with them if you can avoid it.

#19 Spudasaurous

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 08:35 AM

I think its really a question of how mobile you want them and what you want them to kill. If you are planning to kill a primarch id say pay the plasma price as you will need the mobility of plasma guns vs scorpios bolts so you can move into range, double tap the plasma on your preferred enemy unit (ie primarch) and kill it. A full squad if 10 is a possible maximum of 20 plasma shots at rapid fire range. That will smoke nearly anything.

But if you are looking to use them to hunt marines or specialist troops scorpious bolts will probably do.

#20 DuskRaiderXIV

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 02:51 PM

I'd rather keep them bare bones to reduce the point cost. They have ammunition for any situation they could encounter, barring perhaps a Primarch or high toughness Mechanicum or Daemon Monstrous Creature.




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