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Best Gameplay Rules? DG gets my vote...

death guard legion astartes rules

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#1 Deuce11

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 05:19 PM

I dont have Massacre yet so maybe someone can enlighten the group but... Which legion has the strongest rules?

 

From what I've seen, Death Guard has the best all around rules and units.  Their chem weapons upgrade on all templates is too good to ignore and their terminators are also meaner than mean.

 

Who's da best?!


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#2 Grumpy wargamer

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 05:43 PM

I would have to agree with Death guard being strong, Especially with Typhon's Virus bomb attacks. But i think all the legions play well in some respect. just depends on how you like to play.


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#3 Garro

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 09:42 PM

best overall legion i'd say was death guard rules wise at the moment. thats based on their legion rules, wargear, primarch, units, and rite. they don't have the best, but their overall consistency is probably the highest.  the night lords are probably a good second with a strong argument for best.

 

iron hands have the best legiones astartes rule gaming wise. (-1str to shooting attacks against them) although the DG's flamer weapons have shred is pretty nasty, (personally won more than a few games becuase of those re-rolls during overwatch.) however I feel that the word bearers have the weakest. with it being more restrictive and 'plain' when considered next to other legions.

however I think that the world eaters have the best rite of war. Which gives the entire army hatred, which when added to their 'legio astartes' rules from massarce, gives the entire army rage and any unit that wipes out or makes a enemy unit flee furious charge, makes even a basic unit a complete combat monster. 

night lords come in a very close second, theirs gives night fighting on turn one if they want it, and they can carry it over on to turns 2+3 on dice rolls, and considering the entire army has the night fighting USR, thats a complete one sided bonus. 

I'd also consider the emperor's children rite to be the weakest, as it's only notable addition is to allow you to outflank 1-3 elite/fast attack choices on a pregame fixed turn. although its good, and could be game winning, the restrictions placed upon it means IMHO its not worth it.

think the Death Guard and salamanders are tied for best Legion exclusive units. Deathshroud/Grave wardens Vs Pyroclast/Firedrakes. the other legions either have one great one and one so so unit, but the DG and Salamanders have the best 'averaged' units. IMO the Iron Hands probably have the weakest set of legion exclusive units. the gorgon terminators cause blind to all nearby models (which could easily effect friendly units more than enemy ones) and the immortals are just breachers with a few extras, but they still have the inherent issues of breacher squads (high cost, circumstantial defences).

 

couldn't say which legion has the best/worst characters as each character has their own 'thing' and their all priced differently (some are praetor level, while others are centurion level) although typhon does stand out from the bunch in massacre alongside sevatar who is pretty nasty for his points cost. 

the best/worst primarchs rules wise is even tougher. I think curze has some interesting and potentially devastating buffs (giving his entire army fear, and units with it already get a -1 to ld tests for fear) specially when combined with the NL rite and legiones astartes rules. vulkan could also be a contender being nearly as tough as mortarion but with more buff and more killy. but horus remains the best all rounder.
 

 

 

 


 


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#4 Eorek

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 07:35 AM

however I think that the world eaters have the best rite of war. Which gives the entire army hatred, which when added to their 'legio astartes' rules from massarce, gives the entire army rage and any unit that wipes out or makes a enemy unit flee furious charge, makes even a basic unit a complete combat monster. 

 

... We want to know more... Still waiting for my Massacre copy:P


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#5 Deuce11

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 02:35 PM

Ummmmmmm I don't have Massacre yet sooooo my mind was just blown.



#6 Mordian7th

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 03:11 PM

IMO the Iron Hands probably have the weakest set of legion exclusive units. the gorgon terminators cause blind to all nearby models (which could easily effect friendly units more than enemy ones) and the immortals are just breachers with a few extras, but they still have the inherent issues of breacher squads (high cost, circumstantial defences).

 

That's a little disheartening - If I'm reading the various details correctly the Gorgons also lose a point of Initiative as well? In cataphractii armour I guess I'm going to be giving them all power fists/chain fists. If we're going to strike second/last anyway, may as well make it a big hit! Is there actually an upside to the Gorgons or are they considering the blind to be the upside (even though it can potentially affect one's own troops)? Not asking for actual points, but are they also more expensive than their normal Cataphractii bretheren or is it essentially a wash?

 

Honestly it sounds like I'd be better served just running 'vanilla' terminators for my Iron Hands...


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#7 Garro

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 04:31 PM

... We want to know more... Still waiting for my Massacre copy:P

 

Ummmmmmm I don't have Massacre yet sooooo my mind was just blown.

 

 

right the world eaters rite of war, gives the entire army hatred and +1 to run and sweeping advance movement. however they must take an additional compulsory troops choice, may not take more vehicles with the 'tank' or 'flyer' type than they have 'infantry' units, may only take a single consul and that may not be a librarian. and the army may not take a fortication nor a space marine legion allies detachment. (mechanicum, imperial army and rogue trader forces OK)

massacre also allows a WE force to swap 'blood lust' from its legiones astartes rule with 'blood madness' which means that they gain rage from the beginning, but can't go to ground or choose to fail a morale test. they must also always consolidate towards the nearest enemy unit they can hurt. 

 

 

That's a little disheartening - If I'm reading the various details correctly the Gorgons also lose a point of Initiative as well? In cataphractii armour I guess I'm going to be giving them all power fists/chain fists. If we're going to strike second/last anyway, may as well make it a big hit! Is there actually an upside to the Gorgons or are they considering the blind to be the upside (even though it can potentially affect one's own troops)? Not asking for actual points, but are they also more expensive than their normal Cataphractii bretheren or is it essentially a wash?

 

Honestly it sounds like I'd be better served just running 'vanilla' terminators for my Iron Hands...

 

well not quite, the blind thing ONLY effects other units on a 4+,although friendly get to re-roll that. the easiest way of getting around it is to plonk them in a transport and then charge out, also their wearing standard terminator armour but they come with feel no pain (5+). All this is just +5pts a marine (200pts to start with for 5 guys)

 

besides what I intended to mean when I said the IH had the weakest was not really a rules answer as such, both units can be put to lethal effect on the board, but neither units have much uniqueness to them IMO. both units seem underwhelming to me personally when viewed next some of the interesting and different units that the other legions have received. 


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#8 Mordian7th

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 04:41 PM

Thanks man! Interesting to hear they're considered to be wearing standard terminator armour - most of the images I've seen (granted they were just drawings/color plates from the book) seems to indicate they're in Cataphractii armour. Looking forward to seeing what they end up doing model wise - never been too fussed about the rules so long as the models look cool! Hah!


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#9 Eorek

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 08:52 PM

right the world eaters rite of war, gives the entire army hatred and +1 to run and sweeping advance movement. however they must take an additional compulsory troops choice, may not take more vehicles with the 'tank' or 'flyer' type than they have 'infantry' units, may only take a single consul and that may not be a librarian. and the army may not take a fortication nor a space marine legion allies detachment. (mechanicum, imperial army and rogue trader forces OK)

massacre also allows a WE force to swap 'blood lust' from its legiones astartes rule with 'blood madness' which means that they gain rage from the beginning, but can't go to ground or choose to fail a morale test. they must also always consolidate towards the nearest enemy unit they can hurt. 
 

Rage AND(potentially) Hatred... Looks like CC is back on the menu boys


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#10 BrotherOracle

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 07:58 PM

The Alphas are strong contenders best Legion rule, as you get to pick your USR at the Warlord traits stage giving you a lot of flexibility depending on the opponent. Alpharius has some neat special rules and with the Coils of the Hydra rite you seize on a 3+ with 1+ to going first. The Alpha Legion Lernaean Terminators aren't shabby either.


Edited by BrotherOracle, 08 January 2015 - 08:00 PM.


#11 Mike French

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 08:47 PM

I'd say Alphas. The ability to add mutable tactics, gives you the opportunity to shape your legion in any way you wish. Infiltrating Terminators (or Firedrakes) in a spartan anyone? The ability to have tank hunter legion wide is a great way to smash up those pesky enemy tanks. Alpharius' Prefered enemy everything army wide is no joke! I roll a damn sight more ones than sixes :) his other buffs he gives are also the shiz niz!

Coils is great as the oracle has stated and the Ability to take another legions units and then give them mutable tactics is crazy!

Dynat is also pretty cool. Giving one unit deep strike, all friendly units with the legion astartes rule as well as Dreadnaughts in the enemy deployment zone get +1 on the vehicle damage table and reroll sweeping advance, added to tank hunter or infiltrate and Alpharius' prefered enemy everything, -1 to enemy reserves and the swap reserve rules and they aren't too shabby.

They get my vote.

#12 Matus

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Posted 20 January 2015 - 07:42 AM

I feel sorry for the word bearers. I know everyone doesn't have atsknf, but I've still never found moral to be that big an issue.

#13 likeAsir

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 05:49 PM

Zealot is insanely good, like game winning.

To never fall back from combat makes for fantastic table control and using cheaper units to tie up more expensive ones.

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#14 Death Guard

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Posted 11 February 2017 - 04:49 PM

Death Guard, in my humble opinion, are a mid to upper tier legion but nowhere as good as some of the other legions.... They are a good "all rounder" legion (another reason I like them!)

The power curve depends a lot on the meta of your group and how many points you play, but In our group its the salamanders and world eaters that are seen as the most powerful legions. Probably iron hands next....

 

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