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The 8ed Heresy Project - Legiones Astartes


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#101 ShasVa

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 06:47 AM

Grifftofer, I just sent you a pdf link for my Primarch concepts.

 

For everyone else, here is the link. If it doesn't work let me know.

 

Link Removed: becoming obsolete soon


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#102 hydracordatus

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 12:23 PM

All

 

Played a 2000 point game last night .  Put a master of signals with a squad of 9 seekers armed with combi plasmas.  The MoS gives +1 to hit so they could never miss and always fire their plasmas at supercharged without fear of dying.  At long range they are dangerous and at short range they can take out a rhino in a single turn and larger tanks in 2.  Wouldn't ever leave home without them.

 

Also played 10 destroyers with jump packs and 2 missile launchers.  Paired them with a moritat (twin plasma) and a delegatus (for the re-rolls).  Another deadly combination. 1 ML shoots an infantry unit to bring down its toughness for the 32 shots from the bolt pistols, whilst the other ML shoots a toughness 8 tank to bring it down to toughness 7 for the seekers (who now wound on 3's as well as automatically hitting).

 

Just plain dirty.

 

Hydra dominatus



#103 Grifftofer

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 02:36 PM

All

 

Played a 2000 point game last night .  Put a master of signals with a squad of 9 seekers armed with combi plasmas.  The MoS gives +1 to hit so they could never miss and always fire their plasmas at supercharged without fear of dying.  At long range they are dangerous and at short range they can take out a rhino in a single turn and larger tanks in 2.  Wouldn't ever leave home without them.

 

Also played 10 destroyers with jump packs and 2 missile launchers.  Paired them with a moritat (twin plasma) and a delegatus (for the re-rolls).  Another deadly combination. 1 ML shoots an infantry unit to bring down its toughness for the 32 shots from the bolt pistols, whilst the other ML shoots a toughness 8 tank to bring it down to toughness 7 for the seekers (who now wound on 3's as well as automatically hitting).

 

Just plain dirty.

 

Hydra dominatus

Well it's nice to see that Moritats and Destroyers are seeing some use :)

 

However I think that you may be playing the Seekers slightly wrong. The resolve attacks section on page 181 of the rulebook states that "A roll of a 1 always fails, irrespective of any modifiers that may apply." So I think that would mean they can still miss on a roll of a 1. However the designers commentary says that for supercharging you only compare the roll after the modifier, so I guess they are safe from exploding guns at least :)

 

If people read it differently I'd love to know, because obviously my approach to designing rules is based off of that reading. So if I'm off base then everything else will be out of whack too.



#104 Agis

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 02:45 PM

1st off, BIG thanks for the list so far!
 
I looked long and far after the disappointing FW announcement that they will stick to 7th ed.
 
After stumbling over the list here, I was totally blown away by the amount of work already done and the sheer number of units already written.
 
I started a similar very minor thread over at Dakka and tried to convert the Custodian Sagittarum Guard (got the models and want to use them).
 
So I took my HH book VII and the latest Indexes and brew up the following. 
 
Name M WS BS S T W A Ld Sv Points 
Custodian 6" 2+ 3+ 5 5 3 3 8 2+/5++ 40 
Shield-Captain 6" 2+ 2+ 5 5 3 4 9 2+/5++ 40 
Custodian Sagittarum Guard 6" 2+ 2+ 5 5 3 3 8 2+/5++ 40 
 
Weapon Range Type S AP D Abilities Points 
Adrastus Bolt Caliver 15 
Bolt Volley 30" Heavy 3 5 -1 1 - 
Disintegration Beam 18" Assault 1 5 -3 D6 On a hit roll of 1, the bearer is slain after resolving all shots. 
 
So one Custodian Sagittarum Guard would be 55 points. 
 

 



#105 Penddraig

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 08:00 PM

Yep, natural rolls of 1 are always a miss and removed before modifiers are added.
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#106 Mounty_chris

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 06:51 AM

Yep, natural rolls of 1 are always a miss and removed before modifiers are added.

Not quite . It's a miss, but you still apply the modifiers (after re-rolls). So if you have a +1 You miss on a 1 but do not overheat your plasma.

(Which is possibly what you meant. Im just trying to get these rules clear in my head cos they are quite different to what I'm used to.)

#107 ArbitorIan

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 08:30 AM


All

Played a 2000 point game last night . Put a master of signals with a squad of 9 seekers armed with combi plasmas. The MoS gives +1 to hit so they could never miss and always fire their plasmas at supercharged without fear of dying. At long range they are dangerous and at short range they can take out a rhino in a single turn and larger tanks in 2. Wouldn't ever leave home without them.

Also played 10 destroyers with jump packs and 2 missile launchers. Paired them with a moritat (twin plasma) and a delegatus (for the re-rolls). Another deadly combination. 1 ML shoots an infantry unit to bring down its toughness for the 32 shots from the bolt pistols, whilst the other ML shoots a toughness 8 tank to bring it down to toughness 7 for the seekers (who now wound on 3's as well as automatically hitting).

Just plain dirty.

Hydra dominatus

Amazing - thanks for the feedback! It's an odd one with 8ed, because it's so much about building combos that it's hard to know where the line is for stuff that's too good. Especially when its proportionally easier to kill things now!

The plasma squad with a plus one to hit to avoid overheats is someone that people are already doing in 40k quite a bit - looks like a way of solving a problem rather than a mistake.

A few points though:
- How are you getting 32 bolt pistol shots? Surely 20 for the Destroyers (maybe we should tweak their points to reflect the new pistol rules) and then the additional 1 or 2 for the delegates? You say the moritat has plasma instead.
- Rad weapons only reduce toughness of a Infantry and Biker models, so you can't use it on the Rhino.



1st off, BIG thanks for the list so far!

I looked long and far after the disappointing FW announcement that they will stick to 7th ed.

After stumbling over the list here, I was totally blown away by the amount of work already done and the sheer number of units already written.

I started a similar very minor thread over at Dakka and tried to convert the Custodian Sagittarum Guard (got the models and want to use them).

So I took my HH book VII and the latest Indexes and brew up the following.

Name M WS BS S T W A Ld Sv Points
Custodian 6" 2+ 3+ 5 5 3 3 8 2+/5++ 40
Shield-Captain 6" 2+ 2+ 5 5 3 4 9 2+/5++ 40
Custodian Sagittarum Guard 6" 2+ 2+ 5 5 3 3 8 2+/5++ 40

Weapon Range Type S AP D Abilities Points
Adrastus Bolt Caliver 15
Bolt Volley 30" Heavy 3 5 -1 1 -
Disintegration Beam 18" Assault 1 5 -3 D6 On a hit roll of 1, the bearer is slain after resolving all shots.

So one Custodian Sagittarum Guard would be 55 points.

Amazing - thanks. We haven't really got started on custodes yet so the more idea the better. I wonder if Adrastus weapons should have multiple settings like Plasma, or a different sort of Gets Hot rule? It seems weird that you can ONLY fire them on the Killy setting, which isn't something other weapons have any more...

#108 ArbitorIan

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 08:31 AM

Grifftofer, I just sent you a pdf link for my Primarch concepts.
 
For everyone else, here is the link. If it doesn't work let me know.
 
https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing


These look great - it's nice to see that they match up with what we were writing in a lot of ways, I'm going to find time next week to go through all the primarchs properly with this document next to me and hopefully get them all ready to go..

#109 hydracordatus

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 09:38 AM

The seeker/MoS combo did sound too good to be true, and it was definitely way out of balance.  The rules do say a natural 1 always misses irrespective of modifiers.  I had misremembered the comment in the designers notes which says you use the modified dice roll for supercharged plasma.  I thought it meant you didn't miss but actually it just says you don't blow up.  So with that combo it must be that on a natural 1 you miss but don't get killed.

 

How do I get 32 pistol shots?  The RAW for Moritat say that he adds 1 to the pistol no. of shots.  A model fires all of its weapons (though if you have pistol(s) and another weapon you must choose which to fire) so 2 pistols at pistol 2 is 4 shots each from the remaining 8 members of the squad.  It's quite a powerful boost from the moritat.  AP 0 on the bolt pistol means they are not too overpowered but I guess that against guard or orcs this could be OTT.  It might make destroyers more appealing though they do feel a bit cheap at the moment.  Perhaps its the moritat upgrade that needs to be more expensive to make them rarer.

 

BTW the RAW for moritats say they add +D6 to their pistol shots characteristic giving them a maximum of 2 + 12 = 14.  In 7th they could only do 12 shots total.  So it might be better to say that the shots characteristic of any pistol they carry changes from Pistol 1 to Pistol D6

 

My mistake on the rad missiles

 

Hydra dominatus (but just a bit less than before :D)



#110 ArbitorIan

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 07:19 PM

How do I get 32 pistol shots?  The RAW for Moritat say that he adds 1 to the pistol no. of shots.  A model fires all of its weapons (though if you have pistol(s) and another weapon you must choose which to fire) so 2 pistols at pistol 2 is 4 shots each from the remaining 8 members of the squad.  It's quite a powerful boost from the moritat.  AP 0 on the bolt pistol means they are not too overpowered but I guess that against guard or orcs this could be OTT.  It might make destroyers more appealing though they do feel a bit cheap at the moment.  Perhaps its the moritat upgrade that needs to be more expensive to make them rarer.


Maybe we should just remove the ill-omened rule - it was an addition to give them more synergy (not sure it exists in 7e?) but probably is already accounted for with the new pistol rules.

Just to say, it's REALLY useful to hear of situations like this where certain combos break the game.

#111 ShasVa

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 09:52 AM

I uploaded a new version of my Google Doc pdf. I've slowly started including Legion-specific, non-Primarch characters. So far just Saul Tarvitz, Rylanor, and Eidolon (EC), as well as Erasmus Golg and Kyr Vhlaen (IW).

As always, translating them from 7th to 8th editions might not be perfect, but I did what I could. Feel free to adjust them if/when they're integrated into the main document.

And of course, enjoy!


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#112 big_jon

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 01:03 PM

Looks awesome so far, personally my approach to primarchs would be to give them a rule that makes them able to be more than 10 wounds and still be able to hide around other units. I'd also like a rule that potentially reduces incoming damage by 1 for all of the primarchs to help with how lethal shooting is, especially lasscannons. Horus's rule could be a replacement of that rule. Over all I'm pretty impressed because a lot of this makes natural sense. Points will be the hardest part now.

But seriously all those primarchs look solid from what I saw. Though I think Mortarions scythe being d3 damage seems odd. Even with the mortal wound. Honestly compared to Vulkan Mortarion seems kind of weak, he could use more love I think.

#113 big_jon

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 01:08 PM

Opps double post
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#114 Tzeentch

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 04:51 PM

Lets try to keep it on the 8th edition rails, please; we have three codexes now to look at for how things should be assembled. It's hard enough to get people to play homebrew even without adding custom sub-systems and exemptions :(



#115 Agis

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 03:33 PM

...
Amazing - thanks. We haven't really got started on custodes yet so the more idea the better. I wonder if Adrastus weapons should have multiple settings like Plasma, or a different sort of Gets Hot rule? It seems weird that you can ONLY fire them on the Killy setting, which isn't something other weapons have any more...

 

True, all other Gets Hot weapons now got the two stat lines...

What about this:

Weapon                                               Range Type       S AP D Abilities Points 
Adrastus Bolt Caliver                                                                               15 
Bolt Volley                                            30"       Heavy 3  5 -1 1   - 
Disintegration Beam                             18"      Assault 1 4 -3 D3 -

Disintegration Beam  Supercharge      18"      Assault 1 5 -3 D6 On a hit roll of 1, the bearer is slain after resolving all shots.



#116 Caddac

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 05:50 PM

Hey guys, few suggestions.

 

Legion Jetbike - change to 3W and increase to 45 pts each.

 

Radiation - change to Infantry, Bike, Monster & Vehicle. (Monster & Vehicle are only effected by -1T if they have been damaged already into the second tier of stats, units without a tier are only effected if wounds are down to 50%.

 

Kraken Turbo Penetrator - 35 Pts for a pair of missile. - H1, R 36, S 10, -4 AP, D6 Damage - Roll two damage and pick highest.

 

Sunfury Missile - 25 Pts for a pair of missile - H1, R 48, S 5, -1AP, D1 - Roll 6 to wound cause an additional mortal wound.

 

Seekers - Change "Marked for Death" - Pick a single unit @ start of game and your get to re roll hit & wound Roll of 1 against that unit. If you pick a character you simply get to target the character without restrictions.



#117 ShasVa

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 05:31 AM

I just uploaded a new version of my Primarchs in 8th Edition pdf. Link here: https://drive.google...R3N4TzdEVVFTSVk

 

Please remember that this is still a draft. There will be spelling mistakes, incorrect formatting, and missing entries until otherwise stated.

I changed the format to something a bit easier to work with. I will still be adding non-Primarch, Legion-specific characters in due time.



#118 Caddac

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 08:19 AM

How do you guys think we should represent "Instant Death" and "Ethernal Warrior" in 8th.

 

Some weapons have big damage, representing the double toughness type situation. (Power Fist)

 

Some have murder strike, so unlock mortal wounds on roll of 6 to wound. (Sevatar - chain axe)

 

Instant death weapons could be auto mortal wounds in addition to damage? 1 or d3? - (Vulkans - Hammer)

 

So you get high and low damage instant death weapons giving alot of variation in weapon profiles.

 

Ethernal warrior could be a blanket half damage inflicted, as you could strip down Primarch wounds maby too quickly otherwise. This would get around having loads of wounds to represent durability.

 

@Shasva, I like the Primarch work you have done. Interested to see whay you didnt go with the Inv & armor saves from the black books. Ie Angron has a 3+ 4++ and Corax has a 2+ 5++, just from memory now but you get the idea?



#119 Mounty_chris

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 08:22 AM

I know it's not what GW have gone with.. but I feel like more wounds and degrading stats would be more cinematic for Primarchs.. The idea of the big dudes hiding behind a screen of chaff just doesn't work for me.

#120 ShasVa

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 09:46 AM

@Shasva, I like the Primarch work you have done. Interested to see whay you didnt go with the Inv & armor saves from the black books. Ie Angron has a 3+ 4++ and Corax has a 2+ 5++, just from memory now but you get the idea?

 

Those little bonuses haven't made them anymore "invincible". So I thought "why not?". :)

If the Emperor ever gets HH rules I'd LOVE to translate those to 8th edition. I have my own homebrew ones but those could be wildly wrong.






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